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	<title>Comments on: Versus Capital Brings Institutional Real Estate Funds to Retail Investors</title>
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	<link>http://gdmig-reitwrecks.com/2011/04/versus-capital-brings-institutional-real-estate-funds-to-retail-investors.html</link>
	<description>High Yield REITs And Commercial Real Estate</description>
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		<title>By: ron</title>
		<link>http://gdmig-reitwrecks.com/2011/04/versus-capital-brings-institutional-real-estate-funds-to-retail-investors.html#comment-123633</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2012 17:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reitwrecks.com/?p=1353#comment-123633</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In a PERE deal the management fees are taken off of the GPs profit at the close of the fund, if the hurdle rate is not reached- the GP is still one the hook for his 2% PA fee to the LP (investor). 

I don&#039;t even know what industry reimburses fees or pays to work. If your plumber installed a hot water heater that dies a year later, and it is still under warranty, does the plumber refund the initial install costs? no.

Does your broker refund you the commission if the trade doesn&#039;t make money? no.   

 PE firms usually invest their own capital into the fund between 1-2%, sometimes up to 12%. 

The more institutional investors grind on fees, Private equity is about 28-38% away from just excluding all investors, and keeping 100% of the profit, instead of a measly 20% after they guarantee you a specific pre-agreed rate of return (hurdle rate) and giving back the fees they charged during the fund life. 

Not a bad deal, especially when you consider all the work that goes into it. 

As per the &quot;Expenses are one of the few variables investors can control&quot; it is correct- but there is also a huge cost to do nothing with the capital. Do you really want some outsourced 12 yr old analyst in india working for pennies, managing your money- because there is no margin in being a fiduciary?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a PERE deal the management fees are taken off of the GPs profit at the close of the fund, if the hurdle rate is not reached- the GP is still one the hook for his 2% PA fee to the LP (investor). </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t even know what industry reimburses fees or pays to work. If your plumber installed a hot water heater that dies a year later, and it is still under warranty, does the plumber refund the initial install costs? no.</p>
<p>Does your broker refund you the commission if the trade doesn&#8217;t make money? no.   </p>
<p> PE firms usually invest their own capital into the fund between 1-2%, sometimes up to 12%. </p>
<p>The more institutional investors grind on fees, Private equity is about 28-38% away from just excluding all investors, and keeping 100% of the profit, instead of a measly 20% after they guarantee you a specific pre-agreed rate of return (hurdle rate) and giving back the fees they charged during the fund life. </p>
<p>Not a bad deal, especially when you consider all the work that goes into it. </p>
<p>As per the &#8220;Expenses are one of the few variables investors can control&#8221; it is correct- but there is also a huge cost to do nothing with the capital. Do you really want some outsourced 12 yr old analyst in india working for pennies, managing your money- because there is no margin in being a fiduciary?</p>
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		<title>By: REIT Wrecks</title>
		<link>http://gdmig-reitwrecks.com/2011/04/versus-capital-brings-institutional-real-estate-funds-to-retail-investors.html#comment-123200</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[REIT Wrecks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 01:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reitwrecks.com/?p=1353#comment-123200</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Expenses are one of the few variables investors can control.  All things being equal, how do higher fees help investment returns?  

I personally like real estate for higher returns, but &quot;alternative assets&quot; like real estate are clearly not the only path to higher yields:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/business/pension-funds-making-alternative-bets-struggle-to-keep-up.html?_r=1

Bottom line: Fees matter.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Expenses are one of the few variables investors can control.  All things being equal, how do higher fees help investment returns?  </p>
<p>I personally like real estate for higher returns, but &#8220;alternative assets&#8221; like real estate are clearly not the only path to higher yields:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/business/pension-funds-making-alternative-bets-struggle-to-keep-up.html?_r=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/business/pension-funds-making-alternative-bets-struggle-to-keep-up.html?_r=1</a></p>
<p>Bottom line: Fees matter.</p>
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		<title>By: ron</title>
		<link>http://gdmig-reitwrecks.com/2011/04/versus-capital-brings-institutional-real-estate-funds-to-retail-investors.html#comment-123007</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2012 22:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reitwrecks.com/?p=1353#comment-123007</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wish everyone would stop obsessing over fees. It costs something to get a return- be it in the stock market, or any private vehicle.  (margin costs, brokerage costs, platform costs, per share costs, closing costs, redemption costs, money transfer costs, and tons of other fees, even if self directed)

The going rate for commission on alternative assets- real estate is 10% and 2% yearly fees for a 10% yield PA. 
this &quot;no fee, fee&quot; FOF fund at 4.35% PA (21.75% over 5 yrs)  is more than the above. 

If you don&#039;t&#039; want to pay fees, invest yourself (which still has costs) or keep it under the bed.   

A FOF idea is even worse.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish everyone would stop obsessing over fees. It costs something to get a return- be it in the stock market, or any private vehicle.  (margin costs, brokerage costs, platform costs, per share costs, closing costs, redemption costs, money transfer costs, and tons of other fees, even if self directed)</p>
<p>The going rate for commission on alternative assets- real estate is 10% and 2% yearly fees for a 10% yield PA.<br />
this &#8220;no fee, fee&#8221; FOF fund at 4.35% PA (21.75% over 5 yrs)  is more than the above. </p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t&#8217; want to pay fees, invest yourself (which still has costs) or keep it under the bed.   </p>
<p>A FOF idea is even worse.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: rob</title>
		<link>http://gdmig-reitwrecks.com/2011/04/versus-capital-brings-institutional-real-estate-funds-to-retail-investors.html#comment-116445</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2012 20:21:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reitwrecks.com/?p=1353#comment-116445</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Other than the fact that FoF charge higher fees and have lower returns.... They do charge commission for a broker to sell them to you. 

Like anything there are good and bad private reits. Once a private Reit does an full GAAP or IFRS audit- 1st one goes back 3yrs, figure 50-100k a year for pricing at any of the big accounting firms,  then continues to do a yearly audit (50-100k depending on structure) and submits them to the SEC or Sedar (Canada), couple that with a bond rating (25k-40k yr),  these private REITS are just a good or better disclosure wise as public reits. Without the added costs of going public. 

Its stock and standard practice to charge investors for the costs of the offering, and for the ongoing admin- be it mutual fund, REIT, Private equity, hedge funds, or any other alternative investment.  They all have fees, if there are no fees- you can bet the returns stink because there is no mgr. running the fund. 

The FoF can make a splashy double digit distro but the 10% is always smaller than going direct. This is a great marketing article for Versus.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Other than the fact that FoF charge higher fees and have lower returns&#8230;. They do charge commission for a broker to sell them to you. </p>
<p>Like anything there are good and bad private reits. Once a private Reit does an full GAAP or IFRS audit- 1st one goes back 3yrs, figure 50-100k a year for pricing at any of the big accounting firms,  then continues to do a yearly audit (50-100k depending on structure) and submits them to the SEC or Sedar (Canada), couple that with a bond rating (25k-40k yr),  these private REITS are just a good or better disclosure wise as public reits. Without the added costs of going public. </p>
<p>Its stock and standard practice to charge investors for the costs of the offering, and for the ongoing admin- be it mutual fund, REIT, Private equity, hedge funds, or any other alternative investment.  They all have fees, if there are no fees- you can bet the returns stink because there is no mgr. running the fund. </p>
<p>The FoF can make a splashy double digit distro but the 10% is always smaller than going direct. This is a great marketing article for Versus.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich</title>
		<link>http://gdmig-reitwrecks.com/2011/04/versus-capital-brings-institutional-real-estate-funds-to-retail-investors.html#comment-36489</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rich]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Oct 2011 01:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reitwrecks.com/?p=1353#comment-36489</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nice article.  &quot;There’s absolutely no question that the commercial real estate market has bottomed.&quot; agreed. I would say the real estate market is a good place to invest right now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice article.  &#8220;There’s absolutely no question that the commercial real estate market has bottomed.&#8221; agreed. I would say the real estate market is a good place to invest right now.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Justin Kensington</title>
		<link>http://gdmig-reitwrecks.com/2011/04/versus-capital-brings-institutional-real-estate-funds-to-retail-investors.html#comment-24560</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Justin Kensington]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2011 00:06:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reitwrecks.com/?p=1353#comment-24560</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s funny how this blog gets so infatuated with &quot;institutional&quot; money managers. This versus concept is not bad, but other parts of the blog lambast investment structures like non-traded REITs for their fees and then bows down to the superiority of a fund of funds structure?  fund of funds = fee on fees. In analyzing the non-traded REITs, Mr. Reitwreck goes to great lengths to explain that only 83% of the funds invested go &quot;into the ground&quot; or are available for investment, but here, the analysis stops at the expense ratio.  Are we to believe that this fund invests directly into institutional funds that charge absolutely no fees? So, apparently, the institutions of the world like to work for free.  I&#039;m sure they don&#039;t pay real estate commissions when they buy real estate either, because they are &quot;institutional&quot;, so they must get institutional pricing, right.  What a joker this guy is.  Do some homework,  a quick read of the prospectus shows that the &quot;expenses&quot; are way higher than 3.4%. What about the 3% sales load? What about the fees charged by the underlying funds for servicing, account maintenance etc.  Excluded form the expense ratio are also the following:
 &quot;Other Expenses of the Fund&quot;
The Fund will bear all expenses incurred in the business of the Fund, other than those specifically required to
be borne by the Adviser and other service providers pursuant to their agreements with the Fund. Expenses to be
borne by the Fund include:
• all costs and expenses related to portfolio transactions and positions for the Fund’s account, including,
but not limited to, brokerage commissions, research fees, interest and commitment fees on loans and
debit balances, custodial fees, shareholder servicing fees, margin fees, transfer taxes and premiums and
taxes withheld on foreign dividends, and expenses from investments in Investment Funds;
• all costs and expenses associated with the organization of the Fund, and all costs and expenses associated
with operation and registration of the Fund, offering costs and the costs of compliance with any
applicable Federal or state laws;
• the costs and expenses of holding any meetings of the Board that are regularly scheduled, permitted or
required to be held under the terms of the LLC Agreement, the Investment Company Act or other
applicable law;
Strategic Plans
Investment Policy/Guidelines
Manager Structure
Investment Plans
Callan Investments Institute
– Conferences
– White Papers
– Market Trends
– Surveys
“Callan College”
Manager Search
Fund Due Diligence
Annual Portfolio Plans
Fee Analysis &amp; Negotiations
Performance Measurement
Style Groups
Portfolio Characteristics
Manager &amp; Portfolio Reviews
Transaction &amp; Fund
Compliance
Pacing Studies
53
• fees and disbursements of any attorneys, accountants, auditors and other consultants and professionals
engaged on behalf of the Fund;
• the costs of a fidelity bond and any liability or other insurance, including director’s and officer’s
insurance, obtained on behalf of the Fund, the Adviser, BNY Mellon or the Board;
• all costs and expenses associated with the selection of Investment Managers and investment in Investment
Funds, including due diligence and travel-related expenses;
• all costs and expenses of preparing, setting in type, printing and distributing reports and other
communications to shareholders;
• all expenses of computing the Fund’s NAV, including any equipment or services obtained for the purpose
of valuing the Fund’s investment portfolio, including appraisal and valuation services provided by third
parties;
• all charges for equipment or services used for communications between the Fund and any custodian, or
other agent engaged by the Fund;
• the fees of BNY Mellon and of custodians and other persons providing administrative services to the
Fund; and
• such other types of expenses as may be approved from time to time by the Board.
The Fund will reimburse the Adviser for any of the above expenses that it pays on behalf of the Fund. Such
expenses may be accrued by the Adviser prior to the Fund issuing shares and during the Limitation Period when
the Adviser reimburses the Fund for any expenses exceeding the Expense Cap. Such accrued expenses shall be
amortized and reimbursed by the Fund over a three year term.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s funny how this blog gets so infatuated with &#8220;institutional&#8221; money managers. This versus concept is not bad, but other parts of the blog lambast investment structures like non-traded REITs for their fees and then bows down to the superiority of a fund of funds structure?  fund of funds = fee on fees. In analyzing the non-traded REITs, Mr. Reitwreck goes to great lengths to explain that only 83% of the funds invested go &#8220;into the ground&#8221; or are available for investment, but here, the analysis stops at the expense ratio.  Are we to believe that this fund invests directly into institutional funds that charge absolutely no fees? So, apparently, the institutions of the world like to work for free.  I&#8217;m sure they don&#8217;t pay real estate commissions when they buy real estate either, because they are &#8220;institutional&#8221;, so they must get institutional pricing, right.  What a joker this guy is.  Do some homework,  a quick read of the prospectus shows that the &#8220;expenses&#8221; are way higher than 3.4%. What about the 3% sales load? What about the fees charged by the underlying funds for servicing, account maintenance etc.  Excluded form the expense ratio are also the following:<br />
 &#8220;Other Expenses of the Fund&#8221;<br />
The Fund will bear all expenses incurred in the business of the Fund, other than those specifically required to<br />
be borne by the Adviser and other service providers pursuant to their agreements with the Fund. Expenses to be<br />
borne by the Fund include:<br />
• all costs and expenses related to portfolio transactions and positions for the Fund’s account, including,<br />
but not limited to, brokerage commissions, research fees, interest and commitment fees on loans and<br />
debit balances, custodial fees, shareholder servicing fees, margin fees, transfer taxes and premiums and<br />
taxes withheld on foreign dividends, and expenses from investments in Investment Funds;<br />
• all costs and expenses associated with the organization of the Fund, and all costs and expenses associated<br />
with operation and registration of the Fund, offering costs and the costs of compliance with any<br />
applicable Federal or state laws;<br />
• the costs and expenses of holding any meetings of the Board that are regularly scheduled, permitted or<br />
required to be held under the terms of the LLC Agreement, the Investment Company Act or other<br />
applicable law;<br />
Strategic Plans<br />
Investment Policy/Guidelines<br />
Manager Structure<br />
Investment Plans<br />
Callan Investments Institute<br />
– Conferences<br />
– White Papers<br />
– Market Trends<br />
– Surveys<br />
“Callan College”<br />
Manager Search<br />
Fund Due Diligence<br />
Annual Portfolio Plans<br />
Fee Analysis &amp; Negotiations<br />
Performance Measurement<br />
Style Groups<br />
Portfolio Characteristics<br />
Manager &amp; Portfolio Reviews<br />
Transaction &amp; Fund<br />
Compliance<br />
Pacing Studies<br />
53<br />
• fees and disbursements of any attorneys, accountants, auditors and other consultants and professionals<br />
engaged on behalf of the Fund;<br />
• the costs of a fidelity bond and any liability or other insurance, including director’s and officer’s<br />
insurance, obtained on behalf of the Fund, the Adviser, BNY Mellon or the Board;<br />
• all costs and expenses associated with the selection of Investment Managers and investment in Investment<br />
Funds, including due diligence and travel-related expenses;<br />
• all costs and expenses of preparing, setting in type, printing and distributing reports and other<br />
communications to shareholders;<br />
• all expenses of computing the Fund’s NAV, including any equipment or services obtained for the purpose<br />
of valuing the Fund’s investment portfolio, including appraisal and valuation services provided by third<br />
parties;<br />
• all charges for equipment or services used for communications between the Fund and any custodian, or<br />
other agent engaged by the Fund;<br />
• the fees of BNY Mellon and of custodians and other persons providing administrative services to the<br />
Fund; and<br />
• such other types of expenses as may be approved from time to time by the Board.<br />
The Fund will reimburse the Adviser for any of the above expenses that it pays on behalf of the Fund. Such<br />
expenses may be accrued by the Adviser prior to the Fund issuing shares and during the Limitation Period when<br />
the Adviser reimburses the Fund for any expenses exceeding the Expense Cap. Such accrued expenses shall be<br />
amortized and reimbursed by the Fund over a three year term.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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